How this Pakistani podcast landed interviews with four prime ministers and reached millions on YouTube

Pakistani journalist Talha Ahad, 32, didn’t plan to become the face of a podcast. But the office of then-Prime Minister Imran Khan got in touch in 2022 and offered him Khan's first ever podcast interview, so he took the plunge. 

“My aim was to build a brand without a face, because in Pakistan everything has a face. Within 16 hours, though, I was sitting with Khan for a podcast. It was my first time on camera,” says Ahad, who leads independent, video-first newsroom The Centrum Media (TCM).

TCM is committed to hard-hitting, thoughtful interviews and storytelling without sensationalism, says Ahad. This attitude – and TCM’s independent, centrist approach – have made it popular with audiences and perhaps led to Khan’s team making contact.

The interview has almost 300,000 views on YouTube to date. But it was the “unprecedented revelations” made by Khan and the mainstream media pick-up of the podcast that led to its wider success, says Ahad: “This level of mainstream coverage and the ripple effect it created across traditional and digital media underscored the interview’s success far beyond our YouTube views.”

The interview with Khan was the first iteration of Ahad’s podcast and YouTube channel, which celebrated its hundredth episode in September. Alongside four prime ministers, Ahad’s guests have included politicians from across Pakistan’s political spectrum, corporate leaders, the first army general to come on a podcast, and the first female captain of Pakistan’s neza basi team, a sport where riders on galloping horses pull pegs from the ground using spears.

Ahad studied journalism in the UK, including a Masters in documentary film. He initially worked as a freelance video journalist with international media outlets like VICE and NowThis. He moved back to Pakistan in 2016, but there was no documentary journalism market locally – sparking the idea for TCM. Initial funding came from Ahad’s savings from the UK and financial support from his family.

From the podcast itself to its communications arm and content studio (TCM Academy), Ahad and his colleagues are trying to sustain their business, challenge Pakistan’s media landscape, and find new ways to engage younger audiences at home and abroad. TCM has a staff of more than 40 with around 18 to 20 people working on news, a further 15 for the communications agency and 5 to 6 on the podcast. 

Their revenue streams include branded content, digital advertising, training, consultancy work and partnerships with development organisations. Around 50-60% of its revenue comes from the corporate and development sectors across some of these streams. The remainder comes from other sectors in these areas, says Ahad.

Pakistan’s audio market is small compared to its growing population: a projected 3.9 million music, radio and podcast users combined by 2029 for a population predicted to reach more than 260 million by that year. But the country’s YouTube user base is 71.7 million and video podcasts like Ahad’s are increasingly popular, especially amongst the young. 

I recently spoke to Ahad about his project and about the audio space in Pakistan. We discussed his ambitions to grow the project, the incredible value of engagement, and the many challenges of running a media operation in Pakistan, which ranked 152nd of 180 countries on RSF’s World Press Freedom Index in 2024.

Q. How does The Centrum Media (TCM) differ from typical Pakistani media?

A. Pakistani media is quite saturated, and private TV channels are a relatively new trend. When I was a student, these channels were still trying to figure out their business models. Pakistani TV only covered local politics from a surface level. There were no issue-driven or quality stories. It was mostly talk shows.

As a young person at that time, I wanted more context. Society was – and still is – very polarised, and so was Pakistani media. Most channels align with the military and sometimes with the government. Most channels are also run by businessmen. The idea was to bring all sides together, so people can understand or take sides on their own.

In August 2016, I started a Facebook page and hired two people with the aim to be Pakistan’s first independent, video-led news organisation. Our goals were to produce contextual news with new perspectives and to tell untold stories in a video format.

Our first original series was Independence Diaries. We interviewed people who migrated to Pakistan in 1947, when the country gained independence from Britain. Those stories went viral, especially with youngsters who weren’t familiar with these stories.

That’s how we started getting access to people and stories that normal TV channels did not have access to. After the fall of Kabul [in 2021], we were the only organisation in Pakistan with access to former Guantanamo Bay detainees. They’d never come on camera before. While everyone was talking about the impact of the Taliban’s return to power on America and other countries, no one was talking about the impact on Pakistan. We did a series on drone strike survivors in Pakistan by speaking to people who had lost relatives in these attacks.

Q. Who is the audience for TCM and the Talha Ahad podcast?

A. Around 70% live in Pakistan and they tend to be 16-40-year-old and urban. The other 30% are part of the diaspora. Our audience is people who are engaging, not just watching and leaving. In the comment section, people often debate in a very constructive manner.

We publish one main episode on YouTube that’s long-form. Then we distribute short-form content on social platforms and on WhatsApp groups in order to push content on certain topics to different audiences.

Q. How would you define your podcast?

A. My podcast is very centrist. I try to have empathy. I try to ask questions and understand what’s happening. You ask hard-hitting questions in a polite way and guests have a good hour to talk about issues. We are humanising these characters and giving context. People don't know who they really are, beyond their titles.

Younger audiences don't trust TV anymore. Look at the United States. Donald Trump and Kamala Harris went on all these big podcasts. This genre is the future! If you just sit and have a conversation over tea, whether you are against me or whether for me, we can try to understand each other.

Q. What are the challenges of podcasting and running a news operation in Pakistan?

A. We are based in Islamabad, so interference from the establishment and the military is quite high, especially in the last two years. We receive calls asking why we are covering certain topics or interviewing certain people. You’re sandwiched between these calls and religious political parties if you do any critical piece.

Monetisation is a big challenge for us too. I’m trying to run this project as a business, not as an NGO or a newsroom reliant on grant funding because I don’t think that model is long-term sustainable. We make money from content production, branded content and partnerships. We are exploring a few grants to work on new products, such as a diaspora-focused channel.

Because we are video-focused and more like storytellers, it’s hard to find trained people already working the field. So we hire graduates and train them. If you get people from more traditional news organisations, they often have a very old-school reporting style and don’t understand new digital formats.

In Pakistan, traditional reporting styles often lack the flexibility needed for digital media. When we hired individuals with traditional backgrounds, they struggled to adapt to the conversational, casual and engaging tone required for digital storytelling. Despite training efforts, many were rigid in their approach, adhering to a formal “TV style” that doesn’t resonate with digital audiences. Since digital journalism is still evolving in Pakistan, there’s a scarcity of professionals with the right skills to match the pace and tone of digital-first platforms.

Q. You’ve reached the hundredth episode of the podcast and are planning season two. What’s to come?

A. I want this podcast to be Pakistan’s first to go global. We are planning a mini series from the UK for which we have already secured some high-level interviews. The aim is to tell the stories of the diaspora, their successes and their struggles, because almost no one is telling them. We’ll start from the UK and expand to the US, Middle East and beyond.

I don’t often use the word disruption. But that is essentially what we are trying to do to the media landscape in Pakistan. I don’t want to run a media empire. But whether it’s through the podcast, our news videos or our communications work, we try to give context to young audiences so they can have both sides of the story and make better life choices.